Talk:Turn of the Golden Witch/Truth
where did you get those facts? Is it official or are you just making things up? 21:25, January 27, 2015 (UTC) It's neither denied nor confirmed. The whole Umineko series is one big troll. As someone who actually read and analysed the source material for 4 months (no joke), I am convinced that the author intentionally made the whole series ONE BIG CATBOX. You can either go with RosaTrice or Shannontrice, doesn't really matter. If you follow the Shannontrice, there are so many evidences that contradict it, and the same goes for RosaTrice, though the contradictions for the RosaTrice theory are found more in the illustrations in the manga and the interview, but NOT THE TEXT. The only reason I even bother with the manga adaptation is to see the additional changes made. P.S. I noticed that you contribute from TYPE-MOON Wiki. The latest chapter on Fate/Kaleid Drei was pretty cool. This was confirmed by the manga version. Ruykishi confirmed how things occured in the first four games and even End and Dawn. If you analyze all information, you can conclude these things. I was surprised when I found out that Ryukishi agreed to tell all truth about the games and, most importantly, about Sayo in manga version. Rubião (talk) 12:05, January 28, 2015 (UTC) OK. This is gonna be long so just bear with me and hear me out okay? Like I said, RosaTrice is just as plausible as Sayotrice, if you just read the text very closely. After looking at the manga, it still does not refute the possibility of RosaTrice, as the text and wording can still be twisted in favor of RosaTrice theory. True, there is still strong evidence pointing towards SayoTrice, hell there is even foreshadowing (Battler's sin) in the first four games about who the culprit is. But this can still be twisted in favor of RosaTrice. Why? Because Beatrice did say in RED that Battler's sin was not against her as Battler sinned against Shannon. Isn't it possible to twist the idea that Beatrice is Rosa? The strongest evidence about both theories being possible is in EP6. Now I'm not going to bring up the whole topic about the number of bodies, since these kinds of arguments always end up in fans going at each other's throats with no end. The strongest evidence about Sayo having three personalities is when Kanon, who out of nowhere teaches Chick Beatrice how to be Beatrice. This can be taken as foreshadowing to SayoTrice (feels like an asspull but the theory can still work regardless). Now the strongest evidence in favor of RosaTrice is when Maria found out that Kanon killed Rosa In EP6. In this scene she clearly states "I'll kill you. ...Just like Mama killed the others, ...I'll kill you without mercy!!!". In Japanese audio she clearly states the word "minna" which means everybody or at least most people (it is translated as others). This strongly suggests that Rosa had killed the most people. Then Maria says that "I'll be a little more gentle than Mama was", which strongly suggests the brutal murders she may have committed. Now these lines alone strongly support the idea that Rosa is Beatrice, since she's the one who instigated the brutal murders in the series. What's funny about this scene is that in the manga, these lines were deliberately removed for some reason. But it still exists in the source material and the PS3 adaptation, so it is clear that this is NOT AN ERROR. Now you might say that "Maybe Rosa committed the murders in other forgeries or in the second game". I actually disagree, since the illustrations in the manga's solutions doesn't seem to have Rosa killing anybody. Even if she killed in the first twilight, I highly doubt that Maria would just say Rosa killed EVERYONE, and would most likely have specified much more clearly those she killed. If Rosa in SayoTrice theory did kill a lot of people in other forgeries, why would Maria state what she said in EP6, if NONE of the forgeries we have been shown in the whole series depicted Rosa killing other people (including the manga)? Isn't that a little suspicious? In case you bring up the argument that Maria was referring to Sakutaro or the bunny here's what I have to say. In the scene, Sakutaro was clearly alive with her. She said the word "everyone" (a plural word) in Japanese so it shouldn't refer to that one toy that Rosa destroyed. I actually thought that Rosa may have destroyed some of Maria's other toys, but after re-reading the text very closely from Episode 1 to 6 in case I missed anything about Ryukishi mentioning something about Maria's toys, I found NOTHING at all suggesting that Rosa may have destroyed any of Maria's property aside from Chiester 556 and Sakutaro. Since the manga is clearly reinforcing the notion that SayoTrice is the solution to all the games, I came to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter and I wasted 4 months of my life. The whole series is a catbox and any theory can work with it. You can twist the words and interpret the context any way you want and it can still help create a plausible theory. Thanks a lot Ryukishi it was fun and pointless but whatever. The "When They Cry" series really deserves a lot of praise, compared to many trash being made nowadays. P.S. The only thing I haven't figured out about Umineko is the meta-world, future mind fuck with Ange and its connection to Higurashi. EP1 may have mentioned that Higurashi is just a novel, but the meta-world and the future says otherwise. There is still Okonogi and Amakusa and Bernkastel. Japanese Wikipedia states that the manga version of EP8 will clarify its connection to Higurashi, so that is another topic to talk about other than arguing RosaTrice this, SayoTrice that and that Battler is gay. It also seems that even before the manga version of Higurashi Matsuribayashi hen, Amakusa was already established as part of the Yamainu. See one of the covers of the link below, you'll see a 07th Expansion official art of him in Yamainu clothes. http://www.higurashi-cd.com/outline/matsuribayashi.html after first twilight gohda is among the people investigating the chapel doors those four people consisiting kanon, shannon, genji and rosa gohda being at the same spot as kanon and shannon in the same time must mean he's an accomplice or simply know about these two being one person and that scene is simply an illusion to the reader, because all four of them are connected with the crime (regardless of who is the culprit and who just an accomplice)